Overview.

wappy · Veteran Member

Overview.

Nat · Administrator

thats awesom!!!!!! thankyou once more!!!

wappy · Veteran Member

Nat wrote:

thats awesom!!!!!! thankyou once more!!!

No problem! (Love the smiley:

)

ahrb · Senior Member

As I have said many times, the issue of Zach and anyone held against their will in the name of conversion to something they don't believe in
when they have not committed a crime is a human rights violation, and
is not just about gay rights

To me this is also child's rights vs parental rights issue .

wappy · Veteran Member

I agree.

Tavdy posted something very relevant on the FZ bulliten board, which I think is an excellent solution (bolded):

BBC debate update
Body: I'm going to post peoples' reactions periodically as I think there are a number of valid and interesting points to be made. Eventually I will go through the lot and present a rational argument for why Zach shouldn't be at LIAR. This is a recent set of posts (one of which is copied from the last update) and my reply.

Some of you may wish to join in the debate @ BBC online.

re: Freedom Of Religion? Ynty - 600th post - 21 Jun 2005 10:35

I agree with the reactions that everyone’s posted. However, I’d like o be devils Advocate for a while, not because I agree with these parents, but because I hope it will tease out an interesting point.

These parents might argue: “Suppose that you child was sick. You’d have the right to insist that they had medical treatment, even against your will (assuming they are a minor) even if they didn’t want the treatment because it was nasty and painful.”

Now, the answer’s obvious; being gay is not a sickness. But they’d reply;

“Well, we know that it is, and just because you’ve become so degraded that you don’t know that, why does that give you the right to tell us how to care for our child. How would you feel if we forced you to send you child to such a camp.”

I think this brings out some issues about when the state, or society at large, or the majority, or the enlightened, or whatever, has the right to override the wishes of parents. What’s the ethical basis for this? And how might it have ramifications for other cases involving clashes over parents’ “right to decide?

And what’s the difference between this case and one where parents want the right to give their child a specific kind of education? Or want to either give or withhold treatment for a disability?

re: Freedom Of Religion? J - 53rd post - 22 Jun 2005 10:21

That entirely depends on what the parents wish to do. Obviously it should be up to the parents what to name their child, obviously it should not be up to the parents to chop a child’s little finger of because its part of their religion. It's the grey areas that are the most interesting, but it depends case by case. There is a point which parents shouldn't be able to go beyond, but what exactly that point is depends on what we're talking about and ultimatelty the authorities have to decide

re: Freedom Of Religion? tavdy - 8th post - 22 Jun 2005 20:22

True, but in many cultures (the Jewish tradition, for example) the person in question, at 16, would NOT be considered a child and therefore the parents' actions would be considered kidnapping. The question then becomes 'when is a person old enough to be considered competent to make decisions independently of his/her parents on certain matters?' For matters pertaining to sexuality, I would consider 16 to be a reasonable age, in part since criminalising sexual activity would have much the same effect on teenage sex as it did on homosexual sex - it would be driven underground, encouraging unsafe practices, and in part since puberty - the point at which sexuality manifests itself most obviously - occurs a few years prior, and so the individual has had time to acclimatise themselves somewhat to their 'new reality' as an individual with a libido. If 16 is chosen as the age when an individual is considered comptetent in such matters, then wouldn't any action the state took on Zach's behalf be considered as the state defending that individual's rights and freedoms?

ahrb · Senior Member

Could you post a link to this board please ?

Thank you

ahrb

wappy · Veteran Member

ahrb wrote:

Could you post a link to this board please ?

Thank you

ahrb

Sure, Tavdy just sent me the link, The Thread is here

Peace,
Wappy

Nat · Administrator

thanks heaps for posting that! i still cant believe that some people believe homsexuality is a disease tho. grr - it makes me so angry that they can be that ignorant!