Letting Zach know were here

Agent Of Evolution · Member

Letting Zach know were here

ahrb · Senior Member

Just some thoughts . A friend is allowed to speak with him once a week for 30 min . But I doubt they are allowed to speak privately , it's probably in the presence of his parents or LIA people . So I doubt that the friend can inform him of the support he's getting or of his options . And I doubt he can really say how he feels and what he wants . That's why I'm still not convinced that CPS or any other agency who can legally demand to speak with him privately shouldn't be involved .

Agent Of Evolution · Member

True... I'm thinking along the lines of member with a bullhorn bum rushing Zach yelling "we are here for you! Don't give up!" its dumb enough to work. Should we have a group at refuge protesting instead of LIA hq?

wappy · Veteran Member

I completely agree with you. I am just passing on what andrew has. I think Zach is probably unable to speak freely (the rules themselves show that they are being totalitarian) and he is unable to knock the program for fear of punishment (who knows what the punishments are beyond the listed ones, since this place isn't regulated!).

I know for sure that he is able to speak with this friend, as she is his best friend, but I highly doubt that its without supervision---everyone changes how they talk when they're being supervised by someone who might disagree.

I can certainly understand wanting to be responsible about it and just face life, though, but I won't be for sure about Zach, nor will I completely believe what's been said, until we all hear directly from him, which could be weeks now.
I think his friends are all too afraid to come forward, other than EJ who has been very helpful in letting us know generally what the QAC is up to, and keeps the free zach group in line

Someone posted in a similar vein on the End LIA forum, and you're certainly welcome to join.
I am going to repost this if you don't mind to that forum. It's a lot quieter, there, too.

-Wappy

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Count_Daminous
Date: Jun 22, 2005 11:35 AM

andrew said:
hey everyone, I just received an email from one of Zach's best friends, who is able to speak with him once a week. I asked her what does Zach want and here's what she replied
"I think he's just basically very overwhelmed by everything. And he doesnt seem like hes desperate enough to want to escape. I think he sees this situation as something he has to deal with in life, not something he can just escape forever from."

I think that we need to be concentrating on closing centres like this down around the world. That needs to be our focus until we actually hear from Zach that HE wants out.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Wappy, I've read this and it doesn't add up. I've had these camps and even the Nazi camps in Europe and have been and by force ended their reigns of terror on children. But reading this is typical of what is and will be said. Zach has been in the camp too long and under the influence of the drugs to assertian control over him. There is no way in hell that he suddenly would go from being scared to death to "nice and calm and relaxed". Besides the other point is how can this person be able to speak to him when he is forbidden to contact or speak with anyone outside the program.

One thing these camps all have in common is once you enter the drugs begin, and are placed in drinks, meals etc, because they know you won't take the drugs they give you, so they adapt and implant them into everything. You know it yourself that what is said in the above quote doesn't add up, because noone has come forward caliming to know him or interact with him. As far as I'm concerned it has begun and they are already begun to reprogram him to there will. Some one needs to get him out now. Because I have contacted child services and the Tennesse police and nothing is being done.

Yet in all of this I cannot understand why noone has come forward as a friend or member of family, teacher etc and spoken up to help Zach. It's only a matter of time befiore they will bring Zach forward and have him read a prepared statement. Because right now they are 24/7 enforcing against him , because Smid is determined to make an example of Zach and he knows that by turning Zach as quick as possible he will have what he needs which is a symbol of his image to quash everything and Zach reprogrammed and saying "how much he loves the camp and sorry he caused an uproar."

Just my observations, what do you think??

Count

ahrb · Senior Member

Agree and this is Horrible !

Did you get any response at all from child services or police ?

I think someone who 's in closer contact with his friends should go over these concerns with them . I read they are overwhelmed with email and they might not want to discuss it with someone they don't know .

ahrb

ahrb · Senior Member

Yet in all of this I cannot understand why noone has come forward as a friend or member of family, teacher etc and spoken up to help Zach.

I just remembered I read somewhere , I think it was on Zach's blog , one of his friends said her father is friend of John Smid . So maybe LIA has strong support in the community .

wappy · Veteran Member

ahrb wrote:

Yet in all of this I cannot understand why noone has come forward as a friend or member of family, teacher etc and spoken up to help Zach.

I just remembered I read somewhere , I think it was on Zach's blog , one of his friends said her father is friend of John Smid . So maybe LIA has strong support in the community .

It was the lady who made the PRIDE film. She has a blog, but you may have to search for that phrase.

As blunt as EJ is (which seems to turn some people off, but is immensely helpful for me) he is the person to talk to. He knows Zach and the people close to him, and would be best able to answer questions.

If any of yall read this: http://www.phatpage.org/news/ I think this guy has some of his facts wrong and is putting way too much emphasis of the role of the parents (as with any parents, I'm sure they mean well, so they are not fully to blame, and the focus should be on LIAR not the parents--which also reminds me with everyone suggesting emancipation---that is ZACH's decision).

The last name Stark is denied as really being Zach's last name, and regardless, no last name should be attached because he's a minor, and for the privacy of the family. (Once again the focus should be shutting down/reforming these groups, not hurting Zach's family in any way, they're just misguided is all.)

Smid wasn't the one who announced he was holding Zach. His friend, aka Vote for Pedro, came out and said that he would have to stay another 6 weeks.

ahrb · Senior Member

Once again the focus should be shutting down/reforming these groups, not hurting Zach's family in any way, they're just misguided is all.

Of course these groups should be shut down , but it'll probably take time . I'm not suggesting CPS ( or some other agency ) to hurt his family but to give Zach a voice .

I don't know how CPS i US works , but I imagine that he would be asked to confirm or deny that there is abuse and be informed of his options to be able to make a conscious decision ( if they're not using drugs like another poster suggesetd ).

wappy · Veteran Member

ahrb wrote:

Once again the focus should be shutting down/reforming these groups, not hurting Zach's family in any way, they're just misguided is all.

Of course these groups should be shut down , but it'll probably take time . I'm not suggesting CPS ( or some other agency ) to hurt his family but to give Zach a voice .

I don't know how CPS i US works , but I imagine that he would be asked to confirm or deny that there is abuse and be informed of his options to be able to make a conscious decision ( if they're not using drugs like another poster suggesetd ).

Sure, that isn't a bad idea to collect all this information just in case Zach does decide that, or in case some other kid or former participant comes across it who can verify.

ahrb · Senior Member

I can certainly understand wanting to be responsible about it and just face life, though, but I won't be for sure about Zach, nor will I completely believe what's been said, until we all hear directly from him, which could be weeks now.

I think I've read somewhere and can't find it now , that parents are supposed to continue with the regime after the program ends which means that his contact with outside world will be severly restricted untill he's 18 . What if they decide to homeschool him ?

wappy · Veteran Member

ahrb wrote:

I can certainly understand wanting to be responsible about it and just face life, though, but I won't be for sure about Zach, nor will I completely believe what's been said, until we all hear directly from him, which could be weeks now.

I think I've read somewhere and can't find it now , that parents are supposed to continue with the regime after the program ends which means that his contact with outside world will be severly restricted untill he's 18 . What if they decide to homeschool him ?

Things are going to change drastically for Zach. He's (unfortunately) famous for this already. Usually, I'm very pro-homeschooling, but if they continue this behavior when he is out of the program, then they should be the focus of the attention, as they then become the abusers and not the program.

I can understand parents grounding children from access to friends or TV or internet for a brief period of time, but total restriction from all information for several years is damaging.

Ginger · Veteran Member

I agree with you Wappy, it is very damaging. And as of today, his parents have every right to do what they are doing. They aren't doing anything illegal. And right now, neither is LIA. Child services isn't going to do anything. We have to shut these organizations down. I think the key is getting a former member on our side. Someone who knows first hand what actually goes on inside. Right now all we have is speculation.

wappy · Veteran Member

Ginger wrote:

I agree with you Wappy, it is very damaging. And as of today, his parents have every right to do what they are doing. They aren't doing anything illegal. And right now, neither is LIA. Child services isn't going to do anything. We have to shut these organizations down. I think the key is getting a former member on our side. Someone who knows first hand what actually goes on inside. Right now all we have is speculation.

Personally, I plan to limit my child's TV watching, as would any parent for various reasons, but total isolation from all forms of media and information is extreme.

Yes, you might try Peter Toscono (he has a blog somewhere...). He's helping with the QAC.

ahrb · Senior Member

This is from google groups search . Similar situation year 1996 .

Religious abuse of Gay teenager

A so-called "ex-gay" group(PROJECT EXODUS) has convinced the parents
>of a Florida teenager to put him in "desensitization therapy" as of
>April 1. This will probably be in a locked facility and, as the stated
>purpose is to try to force him to turn straight, it is a gross abuse of
>his human rights. The treatmment will not work but it may drive him to
>suicide, as these creeps give him drugs to induce severe nausea and/or
>electric shocks while showing him Gay pornography. Unfortunately, this
>treatment drives some of it's victims to suicide PLEASE CALL PROJECT
>EXODUS AT 1-415-44554-1017 and tell them you are OUTRAGED at this ????????????????
>terrible crime. Together, we can teach these pigs a lesson they will
>never forget.
Read the thread from the beginning .
Link

Another on the same story
PSYCHIATRIC/CHRISTIAN ABUSE OF FLORIDA GAY BOY
Link

-- Edited by ahrb at 19:33, 2005-06-23

Nat · Administrator

We need to focus on closing the camps. The more emphasis that is placed on Zach - the more they will use him as an example. There are so many other children going through the same kind of hell that Zach is, and we need to help them too. The fact that suicide is considered a better option than returning to a gay lifestyle is extremely disturbing, especially condsidering how drastically his life will have changed already. I believe his parents have been very misguided in the whole situation, and although they believe they are doing whats best for him, i dont think they realise what the repercussions such a traumatic time can have on someone - especially if this keeps going till he is 18. I hate to admit it - but if he keeps being treated and abused this way till he is 18 he will never be the same again. It will be a struggle enough to get him back to the way he was after just a couple of months. Places like this need to be stopped and the only way to do it is to have a united front with strong, reliable research into the issue to back up our points, and also to destroy the basis of the camps mentality on the situation

ahrb · Senior Member

>One thing these camps all have in common is once you enter the drugs begin, and are placed in drinks, meals etc, because they know you won't take the drugs they give you, so they adapt and implant them into everything. You know it yourself that what is said in the above quote doesn't add up, because noone has come forward caliming to know him or interact with him. As far as I'm concerned it has begun and they are already begun to reprogram him to there will. Some one needs to get him out now. Because I have contacted child services and the Tennesse police and nothing is being done.<

Now that the state is investigating LIA , can they have clients tested for drugs ?

-- Edited by ahrb at 14:55, 2005-06-24

Ginger · Veteran Member

I'm sure they could, but they would have to suspect drugs, and the parents would probably have to permit them to do so. Unless it's ordered by a judge.

ahrb · Senior Member

Like it or not , it's personal stories that get public attention and I have yet to see this story in mainstream media . In tennesseean it was burried at the bottom , you'll only find it if you're looking for it . More public awereness is nesessary to make a significant change which IMHO would be better protection of minors' rights .